This probably should be relegated to the “don’t feed the trolls” school of thought, but when moved, I post.
skye Says:
Your “better life” is not a life that all would live happily and so we get into the definition of “better” and how subjective it is. Why is it that you are so angry at people for making their own choices–especially those that don’t directly impact you? As a NON-LAZY fat grrl, I’m especially put off by your venom for people of my size.
It’s a shame…this blog was one of my favorites.
Skye – 99.99% of the population is living a lifestyle based on an infinite supply of unfathomably cheap energy slaves known as oil. Many will be unhappy when the lifestyle of Petroleum Man sorta… doesn’t seem to be happening anymore. I guarantee their transition from their present enjoyable lifestyle into a post petroleum one will be viciously painful. Most won’t make it.
I don’t think you understand the level of commitment it takes to spend 20 hours bent over in all kinds of weather to grow and harvest an amount of beans you can get for two bucks at the walmart. Modern agribusiness and our consumer culture do directly “impact” me – via an impossible to compete with market playing field, starting with the fact that it is illegal to sell dairy and poultry products without enslaving yourself to the very thing that’s killing us off.
Take away your high fructose caloric inputs and add in the manual labor that goes with freehold homesteading and those extra pounds you’re toting around would disappear real quick. “Fat” is the result of access to more than your own input – in the days of old only the Emperors and the ruling class carried around extra pounds. Dinosaur juice allows anyone to be able to block the isles at walmart.
There is no way that anyone with the most rudimentary reading comprention (hahaha) skills has failed to grasp that my attitude towards plasticland and all that blindly populate that mecca of pointless activity is less than respectful. On most days I don’t think a couple of high altitude EMP bursts wouldn’t be such a bad thing at all in the grand scheme of things. I’m not catering to the apartment dwelling crowd…
Periol splits urban insanity, airdrops himself out here and all of a sudden, after I’ve thrown myself at this freehold for 14 hours since sunup I have somebody here who’s happy to milk the goats and button up the critters for the night. I’m more than happy to host a post mentioning the “fat and slow and helpless” bulk of people that clot up the drainpipe our civilization has become.
And Namste – (Bowing in your general direction),Three pounds of flax! ;-D
comrade simba 
May 19, 2009 at 12:13 pm |
I used to be fat. I know what I’m talking about. There aren’t many things that make you fat in this world – eating too much and not being active are pretty much it. There’s some myth about genetic “tendencies” and all that nonsense, but if it runs in anyone’s family, it runs in mine.
In the past five years I’ve lost 100 pounds. I was fat in junior high, fat in high school, ok in college because i played sports, and then i got fat again after graduation. I tried every diet in the book, and none of them worked. Mainly because like 99% of the fat people out there, I was more interested in eating too much shit food and not interested enough in exercise, activity, and staying disciplined.
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/2015-75-adults-will-be-overweight-41-obese-13666.html
Scientists expect 75% of Americans to be overweight by 2015. That’s up from 66% in 2004. If you’re fat, you aren’t in some persecuted minority. YOU ARE THE MAJORITY. We are a nation of fat, overweight, no-good slobs. Don’t like it? Lose some weight.
Seriously, what’s it gonna take? No matter how lazy you aren’t, you can’t work to your full potential. You can’t walk as far as you’d like, you can’t run as far as you’d like, you can’t ride your bike as far or climb mountains or spend day after day working to grow your own food, because you’re fat.
It’s all a matter of discipline. Period. I don’t care how much you weigh, if you cut down on your caloric intake and increase physical activity, you will start losing weight. Stop eating sugar and high-fructose corn syrup. Stop eating processed foods and eat more raw vegetables. Start doing sit-ups and push-ups and knee-bends and walking or riding your bike instead of driving.
There is no miracle cure. Decide now you’re fed up. Eat less, eat healthy, don’t sit on your ass all day, watch less TV – and then don’t be surprised when your fat starts going away. Stop complaining, and do something about it.
May 19, 2009 at 1:12 pm |
One exception: hypothyroid disorder can cause people to become overweight. I have a good friend who recently self-diagnosed his own hypothyroid problem. He had an incredibly high thyroid-activating hormone level (or whatever it is the pituitary gland makes to stimulate the thyroid. This meant that his thyroid was not responding, and the pituitary went into overdrive). Since he started taking his thyroxin, he’s started to lose weight very fast. He also has ten times the energy he had – he says he feels like he’s 14 years old again.
So those of you who are overweight and have low energy and have other symptoms of thyroid disorder, get it checked out today!
Regarding the other points, for most people, becoming overweight is simply a result of eating too many calories. Unfortunately, eating habits and the brain’s response to food are set EARLY in life. Feeding junk food to children almost guarantees they will struggle with weight gain. Do not feed your children junk food or processed food!!
Comrade: I’m planning on homesteading myself up north, but if the SHTF, I am more than willing to work my ass off on your homestead. I have a lot of skills. I have some tools, including the kind needed to hunt and defend. I have two dependents, though… regardless, keep up the good work. If I didn’t live hundreds of miles away, I’d buy your eggs, cheese and milk in a heartbeat.
Sincerely from the Upper Mississippi river valley…
May 19, 2009 at 1:24 pm |
Even though I don’t think being fat is good, I also think it is important to be compassionate to others. Your advice to fat people is good. It is compassionate because you are showing how to change. Being an example is the ultimate in compassion and understanding.
On another note, I am beat! I’ve been out tilling new ground and it is hard, tiring and hot work. I am also in Missouri, so you know what I’m dealing with here. We’re expanding the garden this year, and as I passed the established garden, bright green with lettuce, peas, kale, radishes and carrots, it occurred to me how hard it is to grow vegetables! No wonder so many people don’t do it! No wonder so many rural types don’t even grow much of their own food and instead raise animals for meat. Gardening, farming is serious work. Thank the gods it is also the best damn food a human can consume!
Anyway back to the soil…
May 19, 2009 at 1:43 pm |
There’s a difference between showing compassion and understanding to an individual, and pointing out a serious societal problem that we have. I’ve faced my own demons, so I understand how hard it is. But let’s be honest, a community meeting with 50 fat people isn’t likely to make much progress on doing anything besides talking about hard work.
Too often these days we take “compassion and understanding” to mean I shouldn’t say anything about issues. Personally, I hope fat people get offended. When I was fat, people were plenty understanding. I get more weird looks from folks when I refuse dessert (I no longer like them – they’re too sweet) than I ever did when I walked into a meeting with a bag of McDonald’s.
The money quote from that article I posted earlier: “Obesity is likely to continue to increase, and if nothing is done, it will soon become the leading preventable cause of death in the United States.” This is deadly serious. It is not an issue to be avoided because people will be offended.
But enough about fat people! It’s a glorious day out, time to go throw some compost on the potatoes. All you folks working in your garden, my kudos to you. It’s hard work, but I’ll be damned if it ain’t worth it! 🙂
May 19, 2009 at 3:06 pm |
“Personally, I hope fat people get offended.”
I think we are on the same page here. I think offense, done in the spirit of a wake-up slap is among the most compassionate acts we can do.
May 19, 2009 at 7:46 pm |
Publicus – there’s the rub – everybody is waiting for WTSHTF, and will wind up with extremely limited and mostly unfavorable options due to waiting rather than acting now. The comforts of the present seem to be blinders for the future.
Funny thing is, once extraction has taken place the doom scare settles down to just background noise in a sea of tranquility ie: country living.
May 20, 2009 at 8:31 am |
Comrade:
Believe me, I want to “extract” now. I AM in the process of planting a fairly large garden in a nearby friend’s backyard, and am bribing her to let me expand it. The yard is completely fenced, and she has 2 cats and a dog – all good to dissuade human and animal invaders. I am planting as much as I can here in the city.
I WANTED to get out this spring, but I would literally face divorce if I tried that. I have a 3 year old son. I cannot precipitate a split with my wife and then be kept away from my son and be unable to protect him and be there through what are likely to be some tough times.
I’m constrained, and resigned to planning the best I can here. I am acquiring supplies, tools, etc. Gardening is teaching me skills… I am even about to start urban hunting for squirrel and perhaps some other critters. My mother-in-law likes squirrel and has cooked them, so I’ll let her cook ’em up.
When it becomes clear beyond doubt that we should homestead, I believe my wife is up to the task. She’s lean and strong and strong-willed – of course, the strong-willed part is causing major problems right now. I’m not even allowed to talk much “doom and gloom” (i.e., reality-based economics and sociology).
There you have it. The only good thing I have going is our family land “up north” that is well-watered and fertile. I know having to “bug out” in a hurry is not ideal, but I suspect we will be able to make an orderly retreat. We’ve corresponded by email, and I appreciated your suggestions on quick temporary but strong shelter: straw-bale housing, etc.
Best,
P
May 20, 2009 at 10:45 am |
Three pound of flax would make Namaste formidable competitor of flatulent cows
May 20, 2009 at 5:56 pm |
As another resident fat-girl commenter, I was never offended by what you had to say. I knew you were right, so I go out and huff and puff every day planting, and weeding, and watering, and hoeing, and feeding, and watering again (damned California sun!) and moving one pile from here to there and turning it over…I have hopes to replace my puff with muscles and stuff as I get stronger, browner and tougher, lol.
Keep up the good work, guys!
May 20, 2009 at 6:04 pm |
I gots a wee bit of extry flubber meself, though I work like a mule. It’s all the garbage food I eat (and little brown bottles, ha ha!). I know this. And I also know that eating well is damn near impossible when yer stuck in the rat race. I’m BEYOND ready to “extract”…….
May 21, 2009 at 2:31 pm |
I think Skye is already feeling pretty bad about herself. All Periol said was he used to be a fat, lazy, convenience addict himself; she took it too much to heart.
On the other hand, the anger directed to her defence of conventional “choices” is also understandable. Right now, the country’s not in such bad shape that we couldn’t have a very soft landing if everyone would just get on board with home food production, cottage manufacturing, etc.
Publius: I’ve got the 10 acres in the woods but, truly, it’s the urban homesteaders who are my heros right now. They are leading the way on many levels. Whether you have 10 acres or 1/10th of an acre, you’re still facing the same learning curve when it comes to food production; you won’t be losing any ground by staying where you are for awhile.
May 25, 2009 at 2:49 pm |
Wow…now I’m a troll for expressing my opinion. There is a first time for everything. At no point did I attack your way of life or attempt to label either of you–I questioned what had been said. Apparently each of us has a different definition for “troll.”
I agree that there will be a rude awakening when the coal runs out. I do understand the dedication your lifestyle requires. I grew up in upstate PA…farm country. Also grew up very poor. Because of my childhood experience, I know how to cook, bake, can, garden, sew, knit…but I also know that your lifestyle is not for me as long as I have a choice. I know a couple of groups (we could call them communes, I guess) that pshaw computers, cars, phones, radios, tvs, etc. and damn those who use them. I’d defend your choice to use these items just like I defend those who have chosen other, more dependent, ways of life. That’s not to say that I don’t encourage environmental awareness and care w/i my own Tribe, but I don’t think I’m somehow their better because I use baking soda to wash my hair.
You said: On most days I don’t think a couple of high altitude EMP bursts wouldn’t be such a bad thing at all in the grand scheme of things.
Hey, me neither. It’s no surprise to most who know me that this sci-fi junkie adores “end of civilization as we know it” literature. I can remember being excited as a 7yo when the emergency broadcasting beeeeep would suddenly be on tv. I would pretend that all tv had gone away forever due to aliens or zombies or a rip in dimensions. Um. That said, I would not be the one to bring our civilization to its knees because it’s not up to me to make that choice for the masses. *looks furtive* Think we are adding to our gov’t files by writing this?
Then said: Take away your high fructose caloric inputs and add in the manual labor that goes with freehold homesteading and those extra pounds you’re toting around would disappear real quick. “Fat” is the result of access to more than your own input…
While calories and work are at the heart of the matter, they are not the entire story. It is not guaranteed that your way of life would slim everyone down. Were it an absolute, there would never have been fat farmers in the pre-industrialized world. I’m happy to see that Publius noted one medical condition that causes metabolism issues but be assured, there are more. And what is a good measure of fat? The BMI system that was fleshed out (hee–forgive me) by a statistician in the 1800s? What about the evidence that now suggests that while people who are underweight or obese are less healthy, people who qualify as “overweight” on that scale are not cutting their lifespan? Does that not suggest that something is wrong with our perception and biases?
That does not, however, address the issues of so many people thinking that one person’s weight is public business. Why not explore why you equate “fat” with “wrong”? I am the captain of my body and what I put in it is MY business, whether it’s nicotine, alcohol, sugar, wheat, corn fillers/sweeteners… It’s also my choice to not put some things in, such as thyroid medication. And yes, thyroid issues can run in families–they run in mine and I have not escaped. Perhaps there is a fundamental difference of thinking here: It seems like you think that you have a personal obligation to society to be thin…and I don’t.
Periol, you said: There’s some myth about genetic “tendencies” and all that nonsense, but if it runs in anyone’s family, it runs in mine.
I’m not understanding your point here. You start by saying that the genetic tendencies toward fat are nonsense but then say if they exist at all, they exist in your family. Er?
Then, Periol, you say: Seriously, what’s it gonna take? No matter how lazy you aren’t, you can’t work to your full potential. You can’t walk as far as you’d like, you can’t run as far as you’d like, you can’t ride your bike as far or climb mountains or spend day after day working to grow your own food, because you’re fat.
You, sir, are incorrect. Which is not surprising since you don’t know me and “speak” in generalizations. I can do all of those things with the exception of running. I have a ski injury in my right hip, knee, and ankle that does not approve of running. I am fat, yes, and yet…despite your assessment…I kick box, go to step class, lift weights, belly dance, practice yoga/pilates every week. I toss the football and take long walks with my 14yo son. Despite my size and my age (sz 18 and 37yo) I am very healthy as are those in my social circle who lead similar lives–no matter their size. I exercise and eat healthfully because it feels good, not because I feel the need to lose weight in order to fit society’s ideals. I suspect that the general “obese and unhealthy” relationship is a matter of correlation, not causation. I guess we’ll find out more as the years go on.
More Periol: Eat less, eat healthy, don’t sit on your ass all day, watch less TV – and then don’t be surprised when your fat starts going away. Stop complaining, and do something about it. And: I don’t care how much you weigh, if you cut down on your caloric intake and increase physical activity, you will start losing weight.
Er, complaining? Has my disagreement been labeled so?
Ah. Once again, a cure-all. Well, Periol, let me tell you a story about a miserable 13 months in my late 20s. Due to a deep sense of body-loathing (gained a lot of weight while pregnant and nursing), I decided to exercise and diet for the first time in my life. I got a trainer and a nutritionist and lost about 80 lbs. I felt great but stressed that I was still a size 14. I too believed that it was a simple matter of calories and work. We kept upping the hours in the gym and lowering my calorie intake until we reached the medically recommended threshold of 1200 cals/day and I was working out 11.5 hrs/wk. My weight stayed w/i the same 4 lbs for 13 miserable months. And no, I was not (am not) a couch potato. I had a young child, worked (construction), went to school, and was (am) very socially active. I don’t even have cable tv and watch about 2 movies per week. Why is it I am fat and yet don’t seem to fit your picture, Periol?
And more Periol: Stop eating sugar and high-fructose corn syrup. Stop eating processed foods and eat more raw vegetables. Start doing sit-ups and push-ups and knee-bends and walking or riding your bike instead of driving.
I don’t drive. I don’t even have a license. Sorry to stray from your picture once again. We don’t eat many processed foods. The big exceptions that pop into mind are Skippy’s Natural peanut butter–my son hates the freshly ground stuff–and whole grain bread when I’ve forgotten to bake some. We are lucky enough to be able to afford to eat organic dairy and produce (local, when I can get it) and most of our protein comes from legumes and organic/humane poultry. I’m one of those suburban weirdos who actually cooks most nights, makes her own stocks and sauces, and composts most that is left on the butcher block. I also don’t generally consume sweeteners except for some ice cream, or a mocha at our local shop, or a pastry each Saturday. These things don’t make me any better than the masses…they are what feels right to me for my family.
Alderlily said: I think Skye is already feeling pretty bad about herself. All Periol said was he used to be a fat, lazy, convenience addict himself; she took it too much to heart.
I actually don’t. I know that much of what society has to say is aimed at making feel bad about myself, and I used to, but I’m over it. I’m much more aware of the differences between perception and fact now–trying to teach the difference between sex and gender helped me with that *lol* It pains me to see so many people loathe their own bodies because it does not fit the societal ideal. This loathing is not exclusive to the fat segment of our population. I want to note that Periol did not just talk about his own experience. Had that been it, I never would have commented on his words.
Adding to the actual topic of this blog: I do not currently grow anything other than herbs because a storm a few winters ago tore my greenhouse apart and scattered the pieces across my neighborhood. A new one is being planned for and the compost bin is still a daily part of our lives. Due to the cost of getting started again, I won’t be saving money for the first 5 years or so but it’s worth it to me to be more independent and to stop putting so much money into Monsanto’s deep, deep pockets. I only wish we were allowed to keep chickens here…
Gah. I’ve written a book. This troll has to pop off to help her son with his Geometry now. Did I mention I also homeschool?
skye
May 26, 2009 at 9:46 am |
Skye:
I appreciated your heart-felt comment.
I mentioned the thyroid disorders that can cause weight gain. I’m sure there are others.
I’d like to address the “body image” problem that a lot of women (and a few men) in our society have.
My wife is a thin woman. She does yoga – she was a modern dancer. Yet she is almost NEVER satisfied with her body! It drives my crazy -she’s a beautiful woman who should have zero body image issues.
The marketing and fashion industries in our society are very destructive for young girls and women – constantly undermining their sense of their own beauty as a way to induce them to buy the shit that the fashion (and diet) industries sell.
There will always be a range of body types, whatever the work/diet regimes of the future. Some people convert more calories to fat than others, and this had/has a survival benefit for societies that experience frequent famines. There is no doubt that being overweight has drawbacks for health and mobility, but people need to remember that genetic diversity exists for a reason. Beauty also exists in different body types: I’ve found thin women attractive, and fuller-figured women, personally.
Get that garden going again, Skye. Keep on cooking good food from scratch.
I do, however, think that our vaunted American lifestyle of convenience will be ending sooner than people think.
May 26, 2009 at 10:38 pm |
Volemart has made in China US flags for 37pesos pre-Iran attack special! I will pick one up next time i get a tub of msg at chinamart. It is hard to find foods at Megamart that aren’t chock full of MSG and genetically modified. Also the total dependence on the automobile contributes to the obesity epidemic. This society is built around the auto and cheap oil. Those days are coming to an end so maybe people will dust off their running/walking shoes and clean up their bicycles and get in shape.
May 27, 2009 at 6:06 am |
Naw, skye, that wasn’t really a troll comment, but I ought to know better than to comment on comments because that turns into a mess most every time.
Differences of opinion are just academic until the food trucks stop rolling, ho ho!
May 27, 2009 at 12:01 pm |
Publius: It hurts me to see so much body loathing around me. I’ve found that the women in my life who are happiest with their bodies are those that braved clothing optional space with a friend/partner…and then kept returning. There is something about seeing bodies of all ages, all sizes, all colors, all shapes–sometimes scarred, asymmetrical, stretch-marked, or missing limbs–that really conveys how varied and beautiful we are.
After I read your last comment, I decided to at least add 6 or 8 tomato plants to my life this season. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find a local source for heritage plants so late in the season so I will have to purchase from a local nursery. Anyway, the plants can live in buckets on the deck this year. The squirrel population will most likely enjoy more fruit than we will *hee* That’s why we bought the greenhouse we had before. Any tips for combating the squirrel population?
Comrade: Thank you for clarifying. Tone is often lost online. I’m glad that you did comment on my comment and hope our interaction does not deter you from doing so again in the future.
I think I feel the pressure of the impending food crisis a bit less than many who are aware of it because I have a place to retreat to if needed–my mother is still in upstate PA, living on farm land, and it has always been the plan to move there should any major disaster strike. Until then, I’ll do what I can here in the ‘burbs…both for my family and through educating those around me. Thank you, Comrade, for blogging your experience.
skye
May 27, 2009 at 4:08 pm |
The ELMO diet never fails. Eat Less Move Often.
May 28, 2009 at 8:21 am |
Skye:
Those nasty squirrels!
If you don’t want to get nasty in return, just surround your plants with chicken-wire. It’s cheap and effective.
If you are willing to get nasty, buy a CO2-powered air pistol. Shoot the squirrels. If you are not squeamish, clean and eat these squirrels. I hear that squirrels are quite tasty, and my mom-in-law has cooked them. She has some recipes. I intend to start some urban squirrel hunting later this summer, once they fatten up a bit. You can find guides and videos on Youtube on cleaning squirrels. Go for it.
My wife and I have been on some amazing naturalist (i.e. nudist) beaches in France… once one gets over the anxiety, it actually does come to be a helpful experience. Americans are both sex-obsessed and puritanical: obsessed by their bodies, and completely unsatisfied with their bodies. Crazy. Same with food: we seem to love it, because we supersize our plates. But we choose poor quality ingredients.
Visit France if you can… southern France. Beaches, small villages and farms, slow food, slow living.
Comrade Simba seems like a curmudgeon at times, but I suspect he has more heart than most. Homesteading probably causes one to not have time for hand-holding us blog readers!
May 28, 2009 at 10:28 pm |
Publius:
It’s funny that you mention shooting the squirrels. When I moved to this house, the neighbor on the other side of our shared wall, an elderly gent, warned me about the squirrel population and confessed that he spent many a day “taking care of the problem.” About two years in, his bb gun broke and he borrowed mine. Unfortunately, I forgot to get it back before he moved to a house that offered single-floor living *hee*
I am not against eliminating the problem, but I can say that I don’t like the taste of squirrel and would only choose to eat it if I had to. Yeah, I guess that makes me spoiled. I wonder if my German Shepherd would enjoy them…
Since I already own a whole bolt of wire mesh, I think I’m gonna build covered frames to protect my plants. I do line my beds with chicken wire so that local cats don’t like to use them as litter-pans.
I agree with what you have to say about Americans and their bizarre views about sex and bodies. I’m glad to read that you and your wife have had opportunity to escape to naturalist locations. I’d love to get to France someday, but for right now this Philly grrl will have to settle for Gunnison Beach in NJ and 4QF in lower PA.
Thanks for being so friendly and helpful!
skye